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It's been over 2 years - Dice Jobs NEED an overhaul

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  • It's been over 2 years - Dice Jobs NEED an overhaul

    Now that this game is run by a good company that listens to our concerns, I think it's time that dice jobs get an overhaul. For experienced players that have complete all the jobs to 5*, dice jobs are really the only productive use of our energy stat, so needless to say they're a huge part of the game for most of the population. As of now, I really see two main issues with dice jobs: 1) Low XP return per stat point and 2) Poor LT mix across the jobs. I'll discuss each of these further.

    TLDR - I'm suggesting that the new devs boost the XP return on jobs to match stamina returns, make the energy cost proportional to the quality of LTs available on each job, and to get rid of recombs on jobs.

    Low XP return

    Something that has always confused me is why energy has a much lower XP yield than stamina. When you hit a boss using stamina, your expected value is 2.5 (the average of 1-4), or 1.25 XP per stat point (because stamina costs 2 stat points). Meanwhile, the expected value of energy for THE HIGHEST YIELDING dice job (Westside) is only 1.067 to 1.133 XP per point. For many jobs it's even worse than this. Take Dubai for example. At 200 energy per hit, the return is 195-215 (0.975 to 1.075 XP per stat point). The LTs aren't particularly good either. NOBODY has Porsche, Tony, Seven, or Penelope in their top 5 LTs (unless you're a really low level).

    My suggestion? Make all dice jobs yield 1.25 XP per stat point (or at least something closer to 1.25 XP), on par with the productivity of stamina. As of now, most dice jobs are never even touched because the XP return on them is so low.

    Poor LT mix across jobs

    Another issue with dice jobs is the fact that most of the LTs are a) not even close to being worth the energy you have to spend to get them or b) are duplicate LTs of other jobs. Take Russia for example. It costs 3600 energy to complete for a chance at 1 rare LT and 3 common LTs. Who in their right mind would do that dice job for the chance at a a sub-par rare LT (Boris) when 92% of the time you're going to get a common LT. You might as well just do the Slums job for 450 energy. Duplicates are another annoying issue. As an example, Colt shows up in FIVE different jobs - Slums, Meatpack, Italy, France, Japan. Why. Please tell me why.

    Another issue is how often the "bad" LTs and recombs drop in these jobs. I've done Westside over 800 times on my pure LSI account. Lotus drops a little over 20% of the time and recombs drop 8% of the time (same % as getting a rare LT). I cringe every time I spend 2500 energy and get a common LT or recomb when I know I can get a common for 450 energy on slums or get a recomb through bosses. Lotus should NOT be dropping 20% of the time. 10-15% max. And recombs should not drop at all. Recombs are easy enough to come by in bosses. Don't give us recombs on jobs too.

    Conclusion

    Dice jobs are an important part of the game for most players, yet most jobs sit untouched because of the above issues. Many players forget that a long time ago, Dice jobs only had 3 LTs each. For example, Westside used to have just Kate, Hector, and Blink. THAT'S IT. There was no Lotus or recomb to make you want to bang your head against the wall repeatedly. But the old devs got greedy and didn't care about how frustrated their players got. While it would be nice to go back to the days of only 3 LTs per job, I know that's probably not going to happen.

    Please Gaea, consider the changes I proposed. Dice jobs have not been touched in at least 2 years. They're getting stale and boring, and people becoming less and less wiling to spend money on refills when the XP return on energy is so low and I get the same crappy LTs.
    Last edited by BiancaK; 01-22-2017, 12:28 AM.

  • #2
    Re: It's been over 2 years - Dice Jobs NEED an overhaul

    Well said Bianca, hopefully our friends at Gaea give it some thoughtful consideration
    Come join us
    on the official
    Underworld Empire Discord Server
    https://discord.gg/ThdmzmJ

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: It's been over 2 years - Dice Jobs NEED an overhaul

      Good news is Duke stated in a previous post that reworking the dice jobs was on his list of things to look into.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: It's been over 2 years - Dice Jobs NEED an overhaul

        I agree with all points except the recombs - I PvP more than I boss fight so without the low yield of some common recombs in slums I would never be able to fuse.

        If they pull them out of the dice jobs, they'd have to pull the requirement for needing them at all.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: It's been over 2 years - Dice Jobs NEED an overhaul

          Originally posted by Quaranj View Post
          I agree with all points except the recombs - I PvP more than I boss fight so without the low yield of some common recombs in slums I would never be able to fuse.

          If they pull them out of the dice jobs, they'd have to pull the requirement for needing them at all.
          Which they should

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: It's been over 2 years - Dice Jobs NEED an overhaul

            I only partly agree.

            The low return on xp I assume is to make up for you getting a prize at the end of the job. Sure bosses get items also. But besides the 1 or 2 epic/legendary items in some bosses what are you really farming away for?

            I mainly agree with the repeated LTs over and over. The only ones that don't repeat are rares and most people from what I know is after doing a more costly dice and getting that rare, they go back to west side to farm for Kate to fuse the other rares they get. I honestly wouldn't mind if they just removed the money collect and 1 common below west side. At westside and up, 2 uncommons 1 rare and 1 rare shard. At 4000 energy dice jobs 2 uncommons and 2 rares or 2 uncommons 1 rare and 1 epic shard would have me farming the higher jobs.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: It's been over 2 years - Dice Jobs NEED an overhaul

              Originally posted by Massmurder View Post
              I only partly agree.

              The low return on xp I assume is to make up for you getting a prize at the end of the job. Sure bosses get items also. But besides the 1 or 2 epic/legendary items in some bosses what are you really farming away for?

              I mainly agree with the repeated LTs over and over. The only ones that don't repeat are rares and most people from what I know is after doing a more costly dice and getting that rare, they go back to west side to farm for Kate to fuse the other rares they get. I honestly wouldn't mind if they just removed the money collect and 1 common below west side. At westside and up, 2 uncommons 1 rare and 1 rare shard. At 4000 energy dice jobs 2 uncommons and 2 rares or 2 uncommons 1 rare and 1 epic shard would have me farming the higher jobs.

              What a great idea to add shards.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: It's been over 2 years - Dice Jobs NEED an overhaul

                I can't agree with all of the points. Dice job has low XP return for a reason. Those LTs are not for free and low XP/cash are the cost.

                I do agree that challenge job is boring and not well balanced. We will see what we can do about that. It's not a high priority task in the queue I have to say.

                I don't agree you get crappy LTs from the challenge jobs. With the same cost and 2000 energy, challenge job is way cheaper to get Uncommon/Rares compared to crate.

                Regarding the recombinator and common LTs, I don't know when they were introduced, but simply changing them back is not possible. We may tweak it when we start rebalancing it in future.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: It's been over 2 years - Dice Jobs NEED an overhaul

                  Originally posted by UWE_Duke View Post
                  I don't agree you get crappy LTs from the challenge jobs. With the same cost and 2000 energy, challenge job is way cheaper to get Uncommon/Rares compared to crate.
                  I think, and feel free to chime in and correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is more in regards to the common LTs being the same legacy ones no matter how far up you go. It just appears that it would make more sense that say London had Hobbes or Niles etc.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: It's been over 2 years - Dice Jobs NEED an overhaul

                    Originally posted by Quaranj View Post
                    I think, and feel free to chime in and correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is more in regards to the common LTs being the same legacy ones no matter how far up you go. It just appears that it would make more sense that say London had Hobbes or Niles etc.
                    I would have to agree with this. With the amount of LTs available in the game now (common and uncommon) it would make much more sense to at least change up the rewards so they at least fit the area they are in.

                    I am not concerned with the XP or cash payout of the DICE job, my goal when doing them is to get LTs to fuse.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: It's been over 2 years - Dice Jobs NEED an overhaul

                      Originally posted by UWE_Duke View Post
                      I can't agree with all of the points. Dice job has low XP return for a reason. Those LTs are not for free and low XP/cash are the cost.

                      I do agree that challenge job is boring and not well balanced. We will see what we can do about that. It's not a high priority task in the queue I have to say.

                      I don't agree you get crappy LTs from the challenge jobs. With the same cost and 2000 energy, challenge job is way cheaper to get Uncommon/Rares compared to crate.

                      Regarding the recombinator and common LTs, I don't know when they were introduced, but simply changing them back is not possible. We may tweak it when we start rebalancing it in future.
                      i have a suggestion about dice jobs if u ever make changed at them .
                      the idea is to add a second bar which fills after each 100% collection that u make (max 5 collection id say ) .
                      and then after filling this new bar the next collection of the dice job will give u the most valued reward from that dice job.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: It's been over 2 years - Dice Jobs NEED an overhaul

                        The wiki has a useful summary page for dice jobs.

                        From that, it looks like the costs and rewards scale fairly sensibly up to Amsterdam/Colombia (apart from SoCal, which is an anomaly). Then they get weird. Russia costs 180 and has 3 commons and a rare - the same as Midtown that costs 75. France is the same again, but costs 190. London (185) is a 2 Commons, 1 Uncommon and a Rare, the same as Meatpack (100). The rest are 1 Common, 2 Uncommons and a Rare, the same as Westside (150) but the costs range from 185 to 200. Obviously the actual Lts on offer aren't all the same, with some Lts of the same rarity being more valuable than others.

                        There are 31 Common Lts in the game and only 10 are available from Dice jobs (if I counted correctly). Even Lts that have been in the game from very early like Officer Mike, Hansel and Gretel don't appear for some reason.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: It's been over 2 years - Dice Jobs NEED an overhaul

                          Main issue with everyone is the lack of lt options for different jobs. Specially the rewards for the jobs needing almost 4k energy and still having same old lts as well as multiple commons. It needs balanceing according to cost for completion imo.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: It's been over 2 years - Dice Jobs NEED an overhaul

                            Originally posted by Quaranj View Post
                            I think, and feel free to chime in and correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is more in regards to the common LTs being the same legacy ones no matter how far up you go. It just appears that it would make more sense that say London had Hobbes or Niles etc.
                            This x1000

                            Out of 18 Areas, each one with a Dice Job offering 4 Lts. Let's take a look at which Lts are offered and how often.

                            Area 1 Slums - Pain(Uc), Mia, Colt and John
                            Area 2 Train Tracks - Shadow(Uc), Penelope, Fang, Hammer
                            Area 3 Midtown - Caine(R), Charmaigne, Lotus, AK
                            Area 4 Meatpack - Fox(R), Colt, Michael, Caesar
                            Area 5 Downtown - Tagg(R), Fang, Hammer, Lucas
                            Area 6 Westside - Kate(R), Lotus, Blink, Hector
                            Area 7 SoCal - Preacher(R), Mia, Shadow, Hector
                            Area 8 Italy - Colt, Blink, Hector, Joey Pep.
                            Area 9 Amsterdam - Arya(R), Hammer, Lucas, Blink
                            Area 10 Columbia - Kate(R), Shadow, Mia, Michael
                            Area 11 Russia - Boris(R), Hammer, Fang, Michael
                            Area 12 Hong Kong - Dragon Lee(R), Michael, Fang, Lotus
                            Area 13 London - Slade(R), Michael, Tony, Penelope
                            Area 14 France - Chromium(R), Fang, Michael, Colt
                            Area 15 Mexico - El Toro(R), Shadow, Hammer, Michael
                            Area 16 Las Vegas - Lucky Shot(R), Pain, Lucas, Lotus
                            Area 17 Japan - Kisa(R), Colt, Blink, Hector
                            Area 18 Dubai - Porsche(R), Tony, Penelope, Seven

                            Ok so let's now take a look at which Lts were repeated and how many times this occurred.

                            John - x1 (Slums)
                            AK - x1 (Midtown)
                            Caesar - x1 (Meatpack)
                            Charmaigne - x1 (Midtown)
                            Joey Peoperoni - x1 (Italy)
                            Seven - x1 (Dubai)

                            Pain - x2 (Slums, Las Vegas)
                            Tony - x2 (London, Dubai)

                            Mia - x3 (Slums, SoCal, Columbia)
                            Penelope - x3 (Train Tracks, London, Dubai)

                            Shadow - x4 (Train Tracks, SoCal, Columbia, Mexico)
                            Lucas - x4 (Downtown, Amsterdam, Hong Kong, Las Vegas)
                            Blink - x4 (Westside, Italy, Amsterdam, Japan)
                            Hector - x4 (Westside, Italy, SoCal, Japan)
                            Lotus - x4 (Midtown, Westside, Hong Kong, Las Vegas)

                            Colt - x5 (Slums, Meatpack, Italy, France, Japan)
                            Fang - x5 (Train Tracks, Downtown, Russia, Hong Kong, France)
                            Hammer - x5 (Train Tracks, Downtown, Amsterdam, Russia, Mexico)

                            Michael - x7 (Meatpack, Columbia, Russia, Hong Kong, London, France, Mexico)

                            It's worth noting that none of the Rares repeat themselves aside from Kate showing up in Westside and once again in Columbia.

                            So as you can see there is quite a disparity between the distribution of Lts throughout the Dice jobs. Mainly relating to the common Lts. It's seems the original devs attempted to make them more and more rewarding but seemed to have stopped this after Westside. As many of you know Westside is the only Dice Job that offers two Uncommons one common along with one Rare Lt. Needless to say it's the best option for our energy and has been since the game's beginning.

                            The question here is why would we continue to use more and more energy for Lts that are continuously more useless as the Dice jobs increase in energy costs? Heck, Italy doesn't even have a Rare Lt. to offer. The staple of the Dice Job since Caine made his appearance in Midtown and Italy doesn't have it.

                            We also saw some very unique iterations of Lts for each specific area i.e. Mexico - El Toro, France - Chromium, Las Vegas - Lucky Shot

                            Would love to see this tradition take effect for the other areas and any other ones we see in the future.
                            Last edited by TheForgott; 01-24-2017, 09:39 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: It's been over 2 years - Dice Jobs NEED an overhaul

                              Originally posted by UWE_Duke View Post
                              I can't agree with all of the points. Dice job has low XP return for a reason. Those LTs are not for free and low XP/cash are the cost.

                              I do agree that challenge job is boring and not well balanced. We will see what we can do about that. It's not a high priority task in the queue I have to say.

                              I don't agree you get crappy LTs from the challenge jobs. With the same cost and 2000 energy, challenge job is way cheaper to get Uncommon/Rares compared to crate.

                              Regarding the recombinator and common LTs, I don't know when they were introduced, but simply changing them back is not possible. We may tweak it when we start rebalancing it in future.
                              Definitely a fair point Duke. It makes sense that Xp return should be a little lower for energy. But for some jobs the return is really low or even negative. For example, compare Westside and Downtown. Westside is much better because it has two uncommons, vs Downtown which has only one uncommon and two commons. Yet Westside is more attractive because the Xp return is higher. Or compare Westside to SoCal. The XP return is potentially negative in Socal, and the LT mix isn't significantly more attractive.

                              It's little discrepancies like these that don't make sense to me. I think dice job Xp returns should be the same across all jobs. The more attractive LTs should cost more in terms of total energy spent, but i don't see why the Xp yield should be different.

                              Comment

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