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Empire Battle Upgrading Members Limit FAIL

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  • Empire Battle Upgrading Members Limit FAIL

    So here is the situation.. we fought empire shadows last night.. we had 60 members they had 50.. they are a very strong team. anyways the max we could take from them was 116 points after all the buildings and people dead thats what we could get..

    they ended up winning 117 = 116 but we still had active people left.. my problem with this is when you upgrade to have more members you are at a disadvantage.. more people means more inactives usually.. it also means that why would i even bother recruiting anyone with a low level or bad bsi?? all these people will be a target and go first putting us at a huge failure..

    yeah we get extra tokens but that's only if everyone is there . there are people all around the world


    so basically if you want to upgrade your hq members limit here is what you need to do

    1. only recruit people in your time zone so you all are on the same playing time
    2. only recruit active strong bsi people.. anyone else kick them out and let them rot because they didnt build a strong character to comply with this empire battle rules
    3. only battle once or twice a day so you can get very little class coins but insure everyone can make it
    4. slow people that don't level fast enough bye bye.


    this is ridiculous i understand it is still new but how this approach was made to basically discriminate anyone that is weaker is horrible

    if you dont understand this you will one day after you fight someone with less members


    here is an example.. blue has a team of the top 20 people that no one can hit.. you have 70 team members lets say 50 are active.. you have to kill all of blue people and buildings to win before the time is up otherwise you need more points before the 2 hours is up.. so all the buildings get you 64 points and killing blues team of 20 people you can get a maximum of 84 points..

    if blue gets 85 points before you get everything destroyed you LOSE!!! you cant win..

    this is why i say if you have weak people or low limit people kick them they are targets and dead weight..

    i understand this may cause a lot of heat and debate which i want. everyones pros and cons on the discussion is necessary to improve things.. but let me end it on this note.. if i knew this was the way empire battle would have been i would have never gone the direction i did.. i would have hammered all att or def and increased my health huge..

    if blues team had 5000 health each with the blank cheque money.. they could just sit back and people would just kill themselves attacking them.. then blue can blow some wind from his mouth and the other team will crumble... empire battle favor the strong and the people who can dispense money at will for 9Star lieutenants
    Last edited by Niaboc; 03-06-2013, 02:57 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Empire Battle Upgrading Members Limit FAIL

    I completly agree points for killing people should be proportional to the empire if it's not it give a way bigger advantage to small empire. What would be the point of going to a 100 members? In castle age if you had a bigger empire points per person was proportional to the empire size so less points per person. It should be the same here. Also in a real War if all the other team is dead it'snt it the team with people still alive that win? I can just imagine bombing a country killing everyone but still lose the WAR does not make sense. If nobody is alive they should lose.

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    • #3
      Re: Empire Battle Upgrading Members Limit FAIL

      While I agree in the long run there should be some adjustments made to Empire Wars to allow for an uneven number of members on each side participating. In the meantime, what you can do, Niaboc, is for people who won't be able to make the battle, just don't put them in ANY slot. That way they won't be able to participate and cannot be a target for points.
      My IGN is not "Blink"...

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      • #4
        Re: Empire Battle Upgrading Members Limit FAIL

        I kinda don't see what the problem is mate? Tell me if I got this wrong ......

        Your guild has a lot of inactives and so you lost the battle? In which case just get rid of people who can't make at least one battle a day if that's the focus of your guild.

        If they are winning because they have strong members but less actives then more power to them I say.

        This game will always have the problem where money will mean a stronger character, I've got no real problem with that as its there money to do with what they want. A slight imbalance comes when a guild is made up of a lot of big real cash spenders.
        Look at blue as the prime example but no offense made to him, he's pretty untouchable and if his guild underworld gods has many more big spenders in it then we are all screwed when we fight them.

        The funny thing is that after we had "ruggers" ? Post complaining / whining about him not being able to faceroll battles everyone now is seeing what a huge difference a good bsi makes to winning a battle.

        The sad thing is that in time there will be people spending lots to have the high health builds , stick em up front and its game over for anyone less inclined to throw cash at the game to win.

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        • #5
          Re: Empire Battle Upgrading Members Limit FAIL

          Muppet you got it all wrong the problem is that we were too strong there was nobody left to attack and we could not get more then 116 points imposible everyone was dead dead dead

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          • #6
            Re: Empire Battle Upgrading Members Limit FAIL

            Great Post Niaboc. Never thought about it that way.
            Most see increasing the member cap --> resulting in hopefully more actives --> more tokens spend in battle --> more overall damage
            But the trade off means that you are also bringing along more possible targets --> allowing for the enemy to score more points as well

            Totally agreed, usually better to address the situation at the root, taking care of inactives, before using member cap increase as a bandaid fix.
            世に平穏のあらんことを

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            • #7
              Re: Empire Battle Upgrading Members Limit FAIL

              But kimutaku dont you think also that if the other team is all dead and the battle is over early because they are all dead that the team with people still standing should be winning?

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              • #8
                Re: Empire Battle Upgrading Members Limit FAIL

                Personally I think the setup should allow points proportional to people playing and the battle to continue till every player on other side is dead. Not only does this increases chances to get more coins it is fair to both sides.i have seen battles with people alive end just cause buildings are done. But guess that's the part where strategy play comes in. One need not utilize the upgrade. There are so many possible mix with updates that flexibility can be allowed for.

                As for people misusing the hp part there I feel the devs should not give the option to increase health at all. It is liable to be misused just like in ca and ruin the game for all.

                one thing though empire wars is not everything. Boss fights are also tougher so the need for more members. There is no weapon launch in ue. Part of the reason so many public bosses fail. We at mist knights just got the upgrade but also know we are weaker than a lot of the guilds out there so it allows the flexibility for people from all over to play and get more people involved in boss hunts.
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  Re: Empire Battle Upgrading Members Limit FAIL

                  Hey Annunaki,

                  Ah yes, sorry i forgot to add that point.
                  Ya, I think wiping out all other players on the opposing team should be an overriding factor on wining, instead of just basing on points totals.
                  IMHO, the last man standing is still the winner, regardless of how much they lost.
                  Yes Niaboc's team brought more troops, and took more losses. But in the end, they were the last ones standing, so technically they are the only walking away and not in bodybags..lol

                  I can see the counter argument that they still lost since they incurred the most point loss (eg. member deaths,etc),
                  but they still have the most still standing at the end. so that should technically be the overriding factor.
                  I guess the current setup sort of balances things against empires that just bring a zerg of people lol

                  With the current winning decision only looking at only points, this opens the possibility for abuse of the wars system to some extent (as Niaboc stated).
                  I'm sure others will argue that its more fun to figure out ways to get the most points.. yes that one way, and leads to much innovation/thinking outside the box.

                  But this means a lot of empires will be hesitant to increase their member caps or lvling bulidings (if that means increased building point value),
                  basically limiting overall growth of each empire.
                  I think we want the empires to grow bigger, as this helps tie players together as a community and provides a sense of belonging,
                  especially with daily donations doing to the empire.

                  IMHO, it would be even more fun to have MULTIPLE ways to win. This would open up a lot more strategies and variance in team setup..
                  eg. kill all other team players, or even destorying all their buildings, as victory determinants.
                  This might even help with getting more people showing up on time for battles
                  And the ending battle points score could still be used as the final say if a battle runs to the end of the timer, etc.
                  Last edited by kimutaku; 03-06-2013, 06:33 PM.
                  世に平穏のあらんことを

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                  • #10
                    Re: Empire Battle Upgrading Members Limit FAIL

                    Interesting maybe giving bonus point to the empire who kill everything before the timer runs out good idea.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Empire Battle Upgrading Members Limit FAIL

                      First of all, that was a good game, as is any match against Eagles Nest. I think you're looking at things wrong here though as compared to our previous 2 matches against you guys, you were in control for a lot of the match and that is directly because of the increased members. You had 43 actives to our 36, but you guys made some very poor strategic choices near the end. One thing I noticed when analyzing the match was that some of your players thought because you were up by points that they could slow down on using their tokens. This is what completely slowed down your point accumulation. You were ahead by a lot of points but we were able to catch up and get more points than you before you finished killing our last member. That is more to do with some of your members error than to do with the battle system. Also, you had around 4 actives up that had a healthy amount of life and around 5 that were getting low. The 5 decided to try and be hero's and quickly burn down our last member, I watched as they took themselves out of the battle giving us the points we needed. The way I look at it, if the additional members didn't slow down, you would of killed us off before we even reached 100 points let alone 117.

                      As far as the comment of needing high BSI players who are very active. I 100% agree, if you want to be successful in empire battles at the highest level if you don't field 40 actives you don't stand a chance anymore. That's how any competitive game is though so I don't see the problem with it. It's comes down to what you want for your empire. If you want to be the best empire you must ensure you have the best (active, high BSI, FP spenders) members.

                      I don't think the system should be changed, you guys could of easily put that game away. It also creates different strategies and adds a different dynamic to the game. Whoever finishes with more points wins.
                      Paul - EmpireShadows

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                      • #12
                        Re: Empire Battle Upgrading Members Limit FAIL

                        Originally posted by Annunaki View Post
                        Interesting maybe giving bonus point to the empire who kill everything before the timer runs out good idea.
                        Ah great idea! I think that would technically be easier to implement from a coding perspective.. xD
                        check if all members on opposing team are dead, if so, give a X point bonus
                        That would definitely help even things up, and be less invasive than changing win parameters.
                        世に平穏のあらんことを

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                        • #13
                          Re: Empire Battle Upgrading Members Limit FAIL

                          Originally posted by Annunaki View Post
                          Muppet you got it all wrong the problem is that we were too strong there was nobody left to attack and we could not get more then 116 points imposible everyone was dead dead dead
                          Ahh got ya. I understand where niaboc is coming from.

                          However to get in the region of 116 points, you must have 40-50 active players in the team surely? I can see the issue now but seeing as we don't have hat many actives and are in the process of a clean up I don't think I'm going to see this problem.

                          I'm guessing you killed everything for those points so my suggestion would be to have a 20 point bonus to the team that has nothing left to kill first maybe?

                          Edit.....just saw you mentioned same thing above annunaki ( tired eyes sorry )

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                          • #14
                            Re: Empire Battle Upgrading Members Limit FAIL

                            Good point regarding the bonus point setup. But one thing I really want implemented immediately is a nerf on hp stat. Frankly that has a possibility of totally ruining the war part just like ca. U can have a very high hp group of alts just sitting in defender position soaking up tokens while the other team makes mince meat out of you as we can't hit buildings till defenders are down. Even high def players die within a reasonable time to give a sporting chance.
                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              Re: Empire Battle Upgrading Members Limit FAIL

                              I'll just post this again, if there are 43 active players vs. 36 active players, and we all regenerate tokens at the same rate (if you don't have armory), even without considering the additional 70 points you would have to start with, wouldn't it stand to reason that you should be able to accumulate points at a faster rate with 43? Some of your members lost that battle for you, not the system.
                              Paul - EmpireShadows

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