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What use for an enforcer?

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  • What use for an enforcer?

    Hi everyone,

    Simply thinking about the current state of enforcers and the problem this class has.

    From what i can see, enforcers became almost useless and are only appreciated for their stimpack ability(wake up at the beginning and purge negative debuffs).
    Enforcer is a class meant to defend a building, so most of your sp are spent into defense and maybe some in hp because it has a good value on enforcers(remember your hp during EvE follows a multiplicator that favors enforcers). As a defender you want to soak as much tokens as possible and now enforcers aren't the best for this. The reason is obviously the release of these new classes, especially titans.

    Comparing enforcers and titans is like comparing 2 brothers, one older and stronger because their abilities are almost identical.

    Im not going to compare every ability but here are some :

    -turtle vs adapt : basically you have to take 10 hits in a row by the same player to be "titan like" against this player only. In very few cases adapt is better than turtle because it is a fixed 3%/attack, otherwose titans can soak up to 50% of incoming dmg at the very first hit.

    -nanosuit vs deflect : probably not the skills i should compare but nanosuit makes you last longer adding armor, which leads to even more procs of nanosuit. Meanwhile deflect does not do this. It only makes you last longer if you get one of these fancy 2-3k crit deflect and kill the player attacking you(trust me it doesnt happen that much).

    -juggernaut vs reinforce : 10k extra hp is actually an incredible boost, let's say you want to add sp to get these extra hp it would cost you 2500 sp for an enforcer and 3333 for another class. So when triggering juggernaut lvl3 early in the war consider that you just gained 250lvls of hp. The downside? That random proc that occurs 3% of the time.. Meanwhile reinforce provides extra armor and hp every war so a better efficiency over time.

    I won't compare more i think it would be boring but you got my point i guess. Yes, the only thing an enforcer provides to his empire is stim pack ability. So i invite players who want to defend a building to upgrade for titan for more efficiency and better results. Otherwise you can stay enforcer but in that case you shouldnt be the main defender but a stimmer for your titans defending.

    Last thing, you may want to stay an enforcer for very simple reasons (and this maybe explains why we can still see this class in top league more than we should) :

    -you can beat anybody with deflect and own them in EvE. This suits players who like gambling but also those who play in a too strong league for their toon(yes that 400ish enforcer who spent 100$ and a year just owned your lvl 1k+ that cost you 1000$ and 3 years in a single deflect).

    -upgrading to titan and maxing skills requires a lot of patience to grind those cc.

    Thanks for reading this post, i hope you learned something and wish you a good day

  • #2
    Re: What use for an enforcer?

    a fast and smart enforcer can be as effective as a fast and smart titan when defending.
    titans have sucker punch while enforcers have stim double effect when caused on self -50% resistance ( u should see how hard it will be to put plague or napalm or traps on them )
    also last stand +stim + armor pack spam can cause lots of troubles .

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    • #3
      Re: What use for an enforcer?

      As a sniper or ghost I am not even a bit afraid of attacking titans .If they dodge my one attack and gain armor I will kill them on next one but enforcers even weak can deflect 2/3 times in a row and when a deflect happens to sniper or ghost they are killed from their own shot.Titans can even gain armor by attacking player .But trust me deflect really scares ghost and snipers which are main killer even you are weak.And if you have more health more chances of deflect happening

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      • #4
        Re: What use for an enforcer?

        I have a fully upgraded enforcer that I recently upgraded to titain. I was one of the stubborn ones who stayed enforcer when the new classes came out, thinking they would not be much better. After many many months of seeing my less upgraded titain counterparts outperform me, I recently made the change.

        Now with only a few titain upgrades(lvl 3) am soaking up many more tokens than when I have my enforcer activated. I really wish they were a bit more balanced because I prefer the enforcer skills to the titain. With the performance difference, it just isnt worth it to stay enforcer.

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        • #5
          Re: What use for an enforcer?

          As a ghost player I hate enforcers WAY more than titans when fighting. The enforcers deflect destroys me in seconds, while nanosuits do nothing to me besides waste another token. AND what's even better in my case is that when the nanosuit procs, I switch my attack to piercing shot and that makes me gain extra damage against their armor. So honestly, the enforcer definitely is the biggest threat to me. While I do agree i've seen some VERY VERY tough titans out there, besides wasting my tokens, it's not killing me with my own attacks at least.

          I do think on the other hand that perhaps a few tweaks to the older classes could be an option to spice them up. I still find a great use to the 4 original classes and feel a balance of all 8 in an empire is key.


          UGH!!!
          deflecting bitch.jpg
          Last edited by Fezuke; 11-24-2016, 11:18 PM.

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          • #6
            Re: What use for an enforcer?

            Originally posted by Vishnu View Post
            As a sniper or ghost I am not even a bit afraid of attacking titans .If they dodge my one attack and gain armor I will kill them on next one but enforcers even weak can deflect 2/3 times in a row and when a deflect happens to sniper or ghost they are killed from their own shot.Titans can even gain armor by attacking player .But trust me deflect really scares ghost and snipers which are main killer even you are weak.And if you have more health more chances of deflect happening
            Sure it is scary to kill yourself with deflect but when it is about % i like to convert it to the real possibilities.

            So say we got an enforcer with lvl 3 deflect and an "average" ghost(this cant really be exact tell me if im wrong). The ghost has AR, lvl 3 accuracy. Let's also say that he gets an extra 10% crit chance from lt.

            First case with a crit deflect : 0,50(chance to crit) * 0,15(chance to deflect) = 0,075 = 7,5%, with words 7-8 tokens out of 100 hits would be deflected normal crit.

            Second case with a deflected crit who had accuracy lvl3 triggering : 0,50(crit chance) * 0,15(deflect) * 0,15(accuracy) = 0,01125 = 1,125 %, with words 1 token out of 100 hits would probably kill you with that huge crit dmg boost.

            So when i look at these numbers i dont find them that scary, sure hitting an enforcer may be risky, but this is only 1% of your hits that would kill you(or hurt really badly). I hope you wont be scared hitting enforcers anymore with your ghost now lol.

            Anyway i stay on my first thoughts, when you're in an empire you got to know/understand/find your place. If you're the biggest stack of def sp of your building you should heal that you're a titan or enforcer. Now if you got a titan and enf of similar def stats then the titan should be holding. Again it is all about knowing your place in the empire, a defender isnt supposed to deal dmg(especially with that low %), but to tank incoming dmg as long/much as possible. By soaking dmg as long as possible you let time to your ghosts to regen their tokens and so the dmg of the empire. I hope i havent been too long. ☺

            NB : i didnt mention certains mandatory ghost lt like overkill to stay simple but the counterbalance can be that i didnt mention the the ghost skill reducing deflect proc %

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            • #7
              Re: What use for an enforcer?

              Originally posted by Fezuke View Post
              [ATTACH]4328[/ATTACH]
              Got a fancy 2,9k deflect once but that one is really nice aswell. But again as i said very few % of deflected hits are dangerous. Not to mention again that what really matters imo is the number of tokens absorbed not the dmg.

              Again that kind of deflect is very rare, 1%, you could see that hit only one time within 3 wars in a row using every single token you got on enforcers exclusively

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              • #8
                Re: What use for an enforcer?

                You may think that damage isn't important but a lot of times, that ONE deflect ruins my entire War......When against tough empires, we can't be wasting Health packs on Ghost's that commited suicide lol. So think about it, ONE deflect is enough to force me to half damage and lose my abilities for an entire war. Not bad I think.

                Imagine the fear I have when the targeted building is filled with 5-6 enforcers. It just becomes a game of russian roulette. (taking for granted they all have deflect 3)
                Last edited by Fezuke; 11-25-2016, 02:45 AM.

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                • #9
                  Re: What use for an enforcer?

                  I hate both, especially if they were stronger than me.

                  On serious note, these days i don't fear deflect as i was back then.. First of all, with all the debuff around plague, tag, etc. that deflect chance already handicapped The serious case of 100 times deflect in a row almost never happened, and high health enforcer usually the first guy i hit in EVE, (you know after applying plague and plowing that bloodlust away) and see the gigantic health goes poof. I don't play ghost so i don't really know what common experience they had facing enforcer nowadays.

                  In short, these days i will be more annoyed meeting Titan rather than Enforcer (given the case their skill was maxed/same level and stats/i win against both) mitigating 500 dmg to 350 and occasionally negating it? Makes me grind my teeth in various cases. That just me though, and i always thought Titan already well equipped - defending class with 2 offensive skill? Yes please!

                  But tbh, i still use both in minis but usually i use the enf one as passive defender. But yeah, play what you like my opinions or others don't matter, cheers.

                  Edit:
                  In my opinions, enforcer even more handicapped at putting more SP to def - lets say i lost against both classes - deflect doesn't even scare me at all. Damage mitigated by def and winning against attacker made deflect pretty much consolation prize, nano suit win if this was the case. Well wrathy already presented the probability of of how the big shot would get deflected and i must say he presented it brilliantly. Lol
                  Last edited by tambunan; 11-28-2016, 01:50 PM. Reason: Adding things

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                  • #10
                    Re: What use for an enforcer?

                    Its a catch 22 with my tanks these days. It really depends on who we face in EvE but it seems everytime my main goes Enforcer I am wishing that I had the mitigation/soaks that Titan provides when the enemy is focusing me. On the other hand if I go Titan I almost always wish that I had gone Enforcer for the Stims to clear plague. Plague is my worst nightmare and lets say we have other active Enforcers I would almost always go with Titan knowing that cleanse is available and the Enforcers do not have Line app notifications turned off
                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Re: What use for an enforcer?

                      Originally posted by tambunan View Post
                      Edit:
                      In my opinions, enforcer even more handicapped at putting more SP to def - lets say i lost against both classes - deflect doesn't even scare me at all. Damage mitigated by def and winning against attacker made deflect pretty much consolation prize, nano suit win if this was the case.
                      This is actually what i forgot to mention in my main post, thx for saying it. Fun fact that happens to every enforcer who is stronger than the attacker, a deflected shot that was somewhere around 25-50 dmg meanwhile your own damage aren't taken by the attacker (100+ dmg)😂

                      Then what if not sp in def? 2 heretics way down here :

                      -the hp wall, everything in hp nothing in att/def and try your best luck to deflect crits. This must be fun to watch warlog but i see some limits to this build; healing during eve isnt worth at all; boss fight with 0 stats is meh; dmg and token absorbed are completely random(even tho it should reach an average per war)

                      -the offensive enforcer. For those who dont plan to upgrade for titan you should get attack. Why? Because deflect works better with low defense and your empire wants you for stim pack, rest is optional. Note that you still get a 30% dmg reduction when going offensive(not the dream compared to other classes i agree lol)

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                      • #12
                        Re: What use for an enforcer?

                        Originally posted by Wrathy View Post
                        Because deflect works better with low defense
                        Does it? Shouldn't it have the same probability of processing?

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                        • #13
                          Re: What use for an enforcer?

                          I meant it this way : lower defense = higher dmg deflected. High defense = lower dmg deflected. Nothing % sorry

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                          • #14
                            Re: What use for an enforcer?

                            First case with a crit deflect : 0,50(chance to crit) * 0,15(chance to deflect) = 0,075 = 7,5%, with words 7-8 tokens out of 100 hits would be deflected normal crit.

                            Second case with a deflected crit who had accuracy lvl3 triggering : 0,50(crit chance) * 0,15(deflect) * 0,15(accuracy) = 0,01125 = 1,125 %, with words 1 token out of 100 hits would probably kill you with that huge crit dmg boost.

                            So when i look at these numbers i dont find them that scary, sure hitting an enforcer may be risky, but this is only 1% of your hits that would kill you(or hurt really badly). I hope you wont be scared hitting enforcers anymore with your ghost now lol.
                            If only straight up probabilities were what happened in this game, you seem to have overlooked the RNG making that most improbable worst case scenario oh so common. "I'll be ok hitting that tagged, plagued and suppressed enforcer... oh... **bother**"

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                            • #15
                              Re: What use for an enforcer?

                              You suggest odds are wrong and there's a conspiracy against heavy hitter? I dont see a reason why tbh.

                              Oh and about %, the "monster" hits from ghost cumulating crit + accuracy + power shot both maxed and proc at the same time would be 0,20 * 0,15 * 0,50 = 0,015.
                              So 1,5% of ghost hits are those freaky 2k+ hits and you still have to * 0,15 to get 0,00225 = 0,225% of these deflected.

                              This is obviously pure prediction, you probably wont kill yourself in one shot. I "often"(based on what i see on warlog) see some nice deflect around 1k otherwise you can notice that most of the deflect are simple hits or normal crit. I witnessed one 3,5k on my enforcer after playing for more than a year(3/4 wars played, and i actually saw it on leaderboard as highest singleshot). Remember that when using ar you take extra 40% dmg of your own crit so numbers are going up quite fast. A monster hit could simply be an accurate or power shot proc 😉

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