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Terminator debate #2: Big Gun 3 or Collapse 3

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  • Terminator debate #2: Big Gun 3 or Collapse 3

    This is how I understand it:

    Big Gun 3
    increasing splash damage 33% (from +66% to 100%) of 5% (Bury3 is an attack that deal 100% damage and splashes 5% to all targets) so a 1.65% increase of splash dmg.

    Collapse 3
    Splash an extra 1% of player dmg to building. (up to 3%)


    I'll go base calculations (No Lt. Bonuses involved), numbers averaged out are 7,14 and 21 player buildings for Bury and hits of 300 and 600.

    7 Players in Building
    300 Player Hit
    Big Gun 3 brings extra +29.7 player dmg
    Collapse 3 brings extra 3.9054 building dmg
    600 Player Hit
    Big Gun 3 brings extra +59.4 player dmg
    Collapse 3 brings extra 7.81 building dmg

    14 Players in Building
    300 Player Hit
    Big Gun 3 brings extra +64.35 player dmg
    Collapse 3 brings extra 6.711 building dmg
    600 Player Hit
    Big Gun 3 brings extra +128.7 player dmg
    Collapse 3 brings extra 9.923 building dmg

    21 Players in Building
    300 Player Hit
    Big Gun 3 brings extra +99 player dmg
    Collapse 3 brings extra 6.018 building dmg
    600 Player Hit
    Big Gun 3 brings extra +198 player dmg
    Collapse 3 brings extra 5.038 building dmg

    Looking at some numbers, it looks like there is a decline in the benefit of Collapse 3 as the number of players increases in the bury used, however, not all Terminator tokens will be used on a largely populated building. But if all these Bury attacks are averaged out you get:

    Average Big Gun3 gain: 96.5 Player dmg per bury
    Average Collapse3 gain: 6.56 building dmg per bury

    This is a ratio of approximately 16:1, or about the same as a Health pack vs. Booby trap - same ratio. So based on that train of thought....it's a push

    But...I reiterate, this is based solely on bury. Not all tokens will be used on bury, and not all buildings will have 7 players in it. So based on that - despite it being what I deem a mathematical tie, I give the nod to Collapse 3 due to the use of tokens other than bury.

    So based on Terminator Debate #1 and #2 I think the priority is

    Collapse 3 > Big Gun 3 > Devastate

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    Re: Terminator debate #2: Big Gun 3 or Collapse 3

    I'd say Collapse ( Team benefits and you take down building faster while attacking players ) but the inner leader board hog in me says Big Gun 3.
    Originally posted by Sticks_CHAOS View Post
    Collapse 3 > Big Gun 3 > Devastate

    Thoughts?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Terminator debate #2: Big Gun 3 or Collapse 3

      I think that Big Gun 3 is more bang for your buck on paper, but it depends on usage. The vast majority of my terminator tokens go to demo, which is not affected by either skill. A decent number of tokens go to napalm to decrease heals from actives via 3rd degree. Those napalm hits would pick up 1 or 2 points building damage from collapse 3 and nothing from big gun 3.
      My bias for bg3 was because I did big gun 3 early on bc I thought I would use bury more often, but as it turns out I mostly save my tokens for demo. Based on that, neither is too useful but collapse3 should have been a higher priority. (I bought bg3 before collapse was open to me).

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Terminator debate #2: Big Gun 3 or Collapse 3

        Here is a flaw in your calculation, the collapse damage is 3% of total player damage including splash damage. But in terms of total effect Big Gun 3 is better overall.

        Now there is 1 more thing that is flawed, I would get Big Gun 3 before Bury 3. Bury 3 is more effective than Big Gun 3 only in buildings with a massive number of players in it. Getting 100% attack damage on the target is more important until there are at least I think it is 20+ players in the target building.

        About 107,000 player damage is what it takes to drop a 3,200 health building (typically Building 3 with 35-45 players). I routinely hit 60K-70K player damage there. If HQ is in 2 (still standing) and a 2nd terminator with Collapse 3 does the same thing, we drop the what can be the armory.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Terminator debate #2: Big Gun 3 or Collapse 3

          Hey guys , What you think I should get between timebomb level 3 or collapse level 3?

          My level is 399
          Terminator vet 5
          Bury level 3
          Big Gun level 3
          Collapse level 2
          Timebomb level 2
          Of course Grenade level 3

          I'm thinking of getting collapse level 3 but my mates said timebomb 3 is better so I'm still thinking 🤔

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Terminator debate #2: Big Gun 3 or Collapse 3

            Originally posted by Dr death View Post
            Here is a flaw in your calculation, the collapse damage is 3% of total player damage including splash damage. But in terms of total effect Big Gun 3 is better overall.

            Now there is 1 more thing that is flawed, I would get Big Gun 3 before Bury 3. Bury 3 is more effective than Big Gun 3 only in buildings with a massive number of players in it. Getting 100% attack damage on the target is more important until there are at least I think it is 20+ players in the target building.

            About 107,000 player damage is what it takes to drop a 3,200 health building (typically Building 3 with 35-45 players). I routinely hit 60K-70K player damage there. If HQ is in 2 (still standing) and a 2nd terminator with Collapse 3 does the same thing, we drop the what can be the armory.
            In my spreadsheet, I calculated the Big gun 3 with Collapse 2 and Big Gun 2 with collapse 3. So the numbers were right. And if you dont' get bury 3, you're not hitting for 100%.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Terminator debate #2: Big Gun 3 or Collapse 3

              I vote Big Gun3 then Collapse personally. If I'm taking a token from demo to hit someone then I want the biggest effect on player damage instead of a marginal bit of building damage. Otherwise I'll just save that token for the building to open. In reality though, order doesn't really matter - just do both

              @BoredGeek, how often are you using time bombs? If frequently then those first but if you have HW in your empire putting down booby traps then it's less a priority of which to do first.
              Come join us
              on the official
              Underworld Empire Discord Server
              https://discord.gg/ThdmzmJ

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